Here's Something to Chew On

"Some people have felt that if people can know God, it would have to be by a fundamentally different kind of knowing from the ordinary, workaday, know-your-mechanic kind of knowing. The ultimate things of life, including something so superior as God, simply can't be captured in words and by reason. To try and talk about God, to express him in propositions, is not to know him. He simply surpasses words. We cannot exhaust his reality in a neatly deduced human system."

Longing to Know, p.41

What would you say to a person like this if you met them on the street? How would you interact with their philosophy of knowing God (epistemology/theology)? Are they right? What are the ramifications of your choice here?

This paragraph is from a book that I am reading right now. It is a philosophy book written by Mrs. Paris' aunt Esther! It has repercussions on evangelism, discipleship, and youth group.

checking to see if you are still thinkinabout anything,
Pastor Mike

The Scandalous Love of God

Philip Yancey has a way of making me think, or rather squirm. He pokes me in the eyes with truth until they water. Then when it is all said and done, I wipe my eyes and end up thanking him for poking me. Talk about adding insult to injury. But I remember that teh wounds of a friend are more trustworthy than the kisses of an enemy. I believe that Phil is my friend, since we are seeking after the same thing -- conformity to Christ. That high goal however must run through an examination of my gracious levels.

Phil points out that God's grace is scandalous! It goes against everything that we consider "right". Grace does not make any sense to us. Listen to what Phil writes,

"Why would God choose Jacob the conniver over dutiful Esau? Why confer supernatural powers of strength on a ... deliquent named Samson? Why groom a runty shepherd boy, David, to be Israel's king? And why bestow a sublime gift of wisdom on Solomon, the fruit of that king's adulterous liaison? Indeed, in each of these Old Testament stories the scandal of grace rumbles under the surface until finally, in Jesus' parables, it bursts forth in a dramatic upheaval to reshape the moral landscape."

What's So Amazing About Grace, p.61

1. So what parable do you think he is thinking of?
2. Can you think of other NT examples of Jesus living graciously in spite of the "receptivity" or "worthlessness" of those to whom he ministered?
3. Do you struggle with ministry to the "undeserving" or do you struggle with Jonah syndrome?
4. What is the antidote to this twisted mental conception? How do we straighten out our "stinkin' thinkin'"?

I want to think Jesus' thoughts about grace, and then minister it to them!

Still amazed by grace,
Pastor Mike

Mrs. M's Post Unravelled

To those of you who know Mrs. M, you know that when she is on caffiene, there is no stopping her. I have read her post (via Andrew) at least three times and haven't been able to unravel all of it. But like a great piece of literature, we ought to at least try to unpack it a little bit! :)

So, here it goes. My attempt to respond to at least some of what Mrs. M said:

>> When we look at these "stories" as a lesson, as what can I learn from this, number 1 remembering Is. 55:8, and then think about those involved, before, during and after the particular scripture. PM refered to Mal. 1:2&3.<<

I believe Mrs. M is suggesting that we can't always figure out what God is doing when we are right up on a situation. We must look at context, not just immediate context either. We must consider the whole counsel of God. The two passages that are mentioned here are Is. 55:8 -- God's thoughts are not mine and Mal. 1:2 -- Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated. We must consider the context always. Be careful not to try and understand simply b/c your mind is too msall to figure what God is doing out. This is part of revelation after all -- God wanted you to read it and understand it clearly.

>>We talk about Es & Jake like they are teen boys, when in fact they're 40y.o.<<

I think just an observation about our perspectives on these men. I am not sure of the relevance to the topic at hand.

>> In Gen 25: 27 Jacob was Plain (Heb. is perfect/complete) man, while in v.34 God says Esau, on the other hand, "despised his birthright" My question was, Is that before or after he sold it? <<

The Hebrew word "TawM" does mean perfect/complete. Another one of its uses suggest that the person described by it is "morally innocent having integrity". I am not sure that this is the right translation since it seems to be in contrast to Esau's hunting ability and outdoorsmanship. the plainness (KJV) or mildness (NKJV) or quietness (Scoffield) seem to be better choices for translation. This quietness is also one of the semantic possibilities.

>> Jumping to Ch. 26 we see again Esau making mama and daddy proud by his choice of a wife hmm -vies both Hittites, v.35 says a grief to Is & Reb. Had this 40y.o. man never heard of the care that was taken in finding a wife for his own father? OR was Dad a bit slow in seeing the needs of his sons. So the quick fix? Let's get another wife! Even related! 28:9 (still in Gen) You look this one up, <<

Pretty well messed up marital affairs! How does this come to bear on the blessing? Consider what Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 28:13-14. The blessing from God is connected to something other than birth order or a Dad's dying wishes. If he was a grief to his parents, imagine the horror that he gave to God who is righteous.

>>anyway Esau was spiritually blind, but was interested in the blessibg when it came to the political and military superiority.<<

Mrs. M has a knack for understatement.

>>Isaac and Reb. both had a prefered son, wrong any time a parent values one child over another, but then that's another lesson on parenting.<<

True.

>> We need to remember too that God could have prevented Reb. from "overhearing"<<

THIS IS THE BEST GEM IN THE WHOLE PILE! So, if that is true, then God wanted this to become known to Rebek. and He wanted her to deal with the issues of her heart. But instead she took matters into her own hands and attempted to manipulate the situation to do God's job for Him. Isn't this the same problem with Sarah and Abe? Sarah tries to work the fertility stuff to the advantage of "God's plan". God had a different, righteous approach planned.

>> ok enough, get into Ch 28, the lesson is on 29, so come ready to spew! I'm bouncing around, and its almost 5AM and I need to get the coffee. <<

Forewarned is forearmed. You teens had better be ready. If this was her not on the drug of choice, look out when she is loaded!! :)

>>and yes to #1 It's been forever since I've heard a lesson on this, but there are more details that I picked up this time and I see the need for more digging especially when I came to ch. 36 and it mentions another wife <<

This is great! If Mrs. M (and we leaders who are older than you teens) still get stuff out of studying the text, then you can too!! Keep digging, keep learning, keep growing.

>>this is Andrew signing out for my mother, Laurie Mitzel. Good day.<<

Such a nice boy. He does love his mother dearly. :) As do we all!

Thanks for unpacking that with me. Whew I am exhausted. But again, at a slightly slower, more sane pace, we can "get" Mrs. M! Hope that you got even more than this out of this discussion!! :)

PM