Last night in YG, we had a discussion/experiment with the lesson that I hope caused you to be uncomfortable (a little bit). I want that because when we are stretched beyond our comfort zones, we will grow. I want you to grow! :) Ergo, I want you to be uncomfortable.
What did you think? I want honest, open feedback here. I don't want you to say "it was fine" unless that's really what you thought and you cannot generate any creativity to improve on that response! Don't say "it stunk" unless you have some ways that would have helped you get it better. Be prepared for interaction from me or others either way -- this is a forum!Here are some other questions to chew on:
- Do you know the story of Gen. 27:1-29 any better today than you did yesterday? Why or why not?
- Are you convinced that Gen 27:1-29 belongs in inspired Scripture? If so, what impact does that have on your "study for understanding and mastery" (see 2 Tim 2:15, 3:16-17)? If not, why not and what should go in its place as our standard for truth?
- What is the "take home lesson" that you took home, in your own words?
Thanks for being part of the experiment and for being outside of the comfort zone for a couple of minutes last night. You are a special group of young people and I love you very much -- even when it seems like I am just up in your business! :D
On your team,
Pastor Mike
18 comments:
I as a coleader thought that wed. nite was very challengeing to me first to have to figure out how to present a lesson to a level that I am not that familiar with. That is agood chalenge for me because I realize that at times I can be a bit verbose.The other challenge for me is to remain quiet at let other think or maybe even squirm a bit in the silence.
In thinking about Rebecca she started out so good when she met Eleazer I wonder what happened in between then and where we were Wed nite?
Mr.BBBBBBBBB
I dont know that I know the story we discussed Wednesday better than before, but I do have some more insight then before....I guess maybe I just thought about it for the first time or at least thought about it in detail! I KNOW that this story is inspired by God and I KNOW that is more then just a story but actually happened...there is no doubt in my mind there.
I think what I really thought about that I had never considered before was that Isaac was kinda the "bad guy" in this story! I always saw it as Jacob for lying. But I saac was putting his wants and desires before what God had said would come about by trying to bless Esau instead. But of course I still dont believe that that means that Jacob should have deceived his father. He should have trusted God to fulfill what he promised. I dont know what the take home lesson of the night would be but I do know that this story reminded me that God's will will be accomplished no matter what any human does to try and pervent it!
I am not sure what I think of youth group nights like this weeks....it was definitely challenging...but then I like a challenge and I dont mind not having all the answers! Of course I am kinda use to PM doing this to us by now! The only time it really bothers me is when I call him up desparately in need and he wont give me a straight answer! :-) But in all seriousness I thought that the night went very well and if it makes us think and wonder like I think it did...then it was a success!
Jac
Alright...I hope there isnt a word limit per teen cause I am sure I have already exceeded it but one more quick question for whoever feels like answering it! Technically speaking in this story wasn't every one in the wrong in some way? I don't hink that any of the characters really did what they should of????????
Jac
Hey, I would like to pipe in on Jacq's last comment. Seems to me taking Wed. nights "story" alone that Esau was the only one not acting in the wrong. He did Daddy's bidding and went out to do what he asked - fetch dinner for a blessing. Of course if we look at earlir behavior good ol Esau did not value his birthright very highly when he traded it to Jacob for some vittles. But in this lesson the othe rnight he, the bad guy was actually a good guy. Waddyathink?
MRS. B
Mr. B
Thinking about how to presnt the same material to a different audience is a very stretching experience. I am about to engage on such an experiment myself.
Thanks for being stretched.
Thanks for being silent when you really wanted to jump in, it will help the teens in the future -- even tho they really want you to just give me the answer and move on.
PM
Mrs. B,
Thanks for your comments. I think that there are some other issues in Esau's life as you mentioned.
>>the bad guy was actually a good guy<<
well, maybe, but remember God passes some pretty intense judgment against Esau. (Esau have I hated) I'm not sure this non-blessing (=cursing) is the result of being a good guy. He does act obediently here.
Thanks,
PM
Jacq,
There is no limit on the number of words per teen -- type on.
Everyone in the story does seem to be headed off in a wrong direction. Does Jacob get any points for resisting his mother's plan at first? Is he acting according to his own self-preservation (He will kill me if he figures this out)?
>>I dont know that I know the story we discussed Wednesday better than before, but I do have some more insight then before<<
+
>>I think what I really thought about that I had never considered before was that Isaac was kinda the "bad guy" in this story! I always saw it as Jacob for lying.<<
I think that means that you do know the story better and the Word of God better and therefore know God better. Thanks for taking the risk to grow.
PM
I think I agree with Mrs B....this is probably a first for Esau but I think in this case he was actually doing the right thing although he was probably just doing it for the blessing not for a better cause and if you really want to get into it you could probably suggest that Esau could have pointed out to his father that he wasnt supposed to receive the blessing but I suppose no one would do that unless they are perfect! After all who would want to give the blessing away epecially to younger sibling! So I guess I will just go with Esau did what was right....everyone else did what was wrong. And as PM pointed out yes at first Jacob did protest to being deceitful but he gave in so he was still wrong!
Jac
PM
the biggest challenge that i had with last week was the fact that we had to present this matial to a younger audiance, because you had to simplify it almost too much.
i did learn alot more from last week in that Esau was doing what was right and he seamed to be punished for it. i know that it was all prophesied that Jacob would receive the blessing of being served by his older brother, but i know it sounds odd...but it doesnt really seam all that fair in reality. if God was going to put Jacob in a higher possition than his brother, and it was promised, that doesnt seam like the way that God should have done that.
idk. maybe someone can help me out?
Andrew
i just thought about this but the way that Jacobs story is played out. it is like a loose edition of Joseph's story when he is sold into slavery by his brothers. he also is promised to be incharge of his bothers, goes though somehardship and becomes incharge. the only difference i see is a very big one in that Jacob fulfills the promise though decite and Joseph fulfills it though hard work. sorry it took an extra comment for me to realize that.
Andrew
&roo,
>>simplify it almost too much<<
Is this possible? Don't we need to be able to teach children the truths of Scripture? Or is it only an adult religion? :D
This honestly was the biggest hurdle that you had on Wed night? I guess we should do it more often if we want to train the next gen of children's SS teachers eh?
PM
Good catch on the older serving younger motif. Yes Joe and Jake both are the unlikely candidates. They both do go through family adversity. They both are blessed by God.
Jake seems to be almost fighting against the blessing of God while Joe seems to embrace it.
I didn't think about that one, thanks,
PM
The thing that was challenging for me was the fact that I had no idea what the point of the story, and trying to figure it out on the fly was difficult.
The conclusion that I've come to, to answer why God put in in there is to help us learn from their mistakes. All for of them were in the wrong in some way or another. Isaac, because he wanted Esau to get the blessing and not do it God's way; Rebekah, wanted to have Jacob get the blessing by any and all means necessary; Esau, wanted to get the blessing even though that wasn't God's will; and Jacob was willing to use deceit to get what he wanted.
All four of them, in different ways, had the same flaw: Selfishness.
We will never know what God would have done through each of them if they were willing to put God's will and others ahead of themselves. And that's a lesson I guess i need to learn.
By the way that was me, Emily~
When we look at these "stories" as a lesson, as what can I learn from this, number 1 remembering Is. 55:8, and then think about those involved, before, during and after the particular scripture. PM refered to Mal. 1:2&3. We talk about Es & Jake like they are teen boys, when in fact they're 40y.o. In Gen 25: 27 Jacob was Plain (Heb. is perfect/complete) man, while in v.34 God says Esau, on the other hand, "despised his birthright" My question was, Is that before or after he sold it? Jumping to Ch. 26 we see again Esau making mama and daddy proud by his choice of a wife hmm -vies both Hittites, v.35 says a grief to Is & Reb. Had this 40y.o. man never heard of the care that was taken in finding a wife for his own father? OR was Dad a bit slow in seeing the needs of his sons. So the quick fix? Let's get another wife! Even related! 28:9 (still in Gen) You look this one up, anyway Esau was spiritually blind, but was interested in the blessibg when it came to the political and military superiority. Isaac and Reb. both had a prefered son, wrong any time a parent values one child over another, but then that's another lesson on parenting. We need to remember too that God could have prevented Reb. from "overhearing", ok enough, get into Ch 28, the lesson is on 29, so come ready to spew! I'm bouncing around, and its almost 5AM and I need to get the coffee. Mr. M's gonna be rollin' out! OH! and yes to #1 It's been forever since I've heard a lesson on this, but there are more details that I picked up this time and I see the need for more digging especially when I came to ch. 36 and it mentions another wife eh I need to go David's up.
9AM I'm back- I was advised to read what I'd written, it was thought by the youngest male in the family that it may have been written in a heat of passion. But I continued to think about Rebba...
but she doesnt know how to send this so she never did finish it. Sooooo.....this is Andrew signing out for my mother, Laurie Mitzel.
Good day.
yes PM i did say simplify it too much. it was the fact that we had to drop to "their" level to comunicate. it just seamed to me that it was losing a lot in translation. OK. i felt like i had to simplify it too much.
---Andrew
Em,
>>All four of them, in different ways, had the same flaw: Selfishness.<<
and so do we. every sin can ultimately be traced back to a me thing.
>>We will never know what God would have done through each of them if they were willing to put God's will and others ahead of themselves.<<
are you suggesting that the potential of each of us as believers is limited by the amount of sinning that we do? Does God react to my sin or counteract it or simply act outside of what I might or might not do?
>>And that's a lesson I guess i need to learn.<<
glad that you got one. I guess I could learn that one or at least hear it again as a good reminder.
Thanks for sharing,
PM
PM,
>>are you suggesting that the potential of each of us as believers is limited by the amount of sinning that we do?<<
Actually I wasn't going there, but that might very well be the case. I was trying to make the point that our potential is increased by how accurately we obey God.
Emily
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